This is not a SFW instance. NSFW communities will be tagged, and efforts will be made to keep SFW communities clean, but proceed at your own comfort level.
Either that or say NK is a dictatorship. When I first got on lemmy I got dogpiled by the hexies because I dared to say NK is a highly propagandized country (even gasp* moreso than the US). Still waiting for even a single one of those guys to move countries to live under the Kim regime, which apparently is the chillest, friendliest place on earth.
I’m not a tankie I just find the content there more interesting than whatever bullshit PR puff pieces get posted elsewhere. Do you want to engage with what I said on a factual basis or is your max level ad hominem? The marketing industry literally evolved out of Freud’s psychoanalysis work as applied to US propaganda in the 2nd world war by his nephew Edward Bernays who then needed something else to apply it to after the war finished. American propaganda is so pervasive it’s fucking depressing. You go to Europe it’s there slapping you in the face. You go to South East Asia and it’s there again. I have never seen any NK propaganda outside what I see on Youtube.
Are the NK people free to watch whatever media they want? If not, they’re by definition more controlled by propaganda than the US. I haven’t seen a video ad in years. I watch leftist media. If I’m able to avoid right wing propaganda and the NKs are not, that’s a problem.
I’m not denying that the US has a massive propaganda problem. But comparing it to a closed state-run internet and media environment is just silly.
You’re not seeing this clearly. NK propaganda is so primitive they need to restrict the media people can consume. US propaganda mechanisms are so advanced and sophisticated that they can create the illusion of choice and the majority fall for it. There are so many avenues and strategies. The Koreans can’t compete. North Korea has a GDP of $34B. US marketing industry is nearly 18 times bigger than the whole of the NK economy. Do you understand what that means? They have to use crude methods because they can’t afford sophisticated ones.
I’d still say NK has more propaganda “per capita” (whether in a monetary sense or not), just because of their closed media. But I don’t actually care about propaganda as the main focus of the issue anyway. US has a propaganda problem, NK has a dictator problem. If you’re not a tankie that’s great and all but propaganda or not most of them on here portray NK as a great place to be and that’s what’s fucked.
Ye NK is not for me but we are world’s apart on this topic. It’s hard for me to articulate how propagandized the US is and how you are demonstrating that by thinking that NK is more propaganized. That very notion itself is proof of my observation but I realise this is not an argument that will cut through the noise for you and demonstrating this will be too time consuming so instead of arguing I would just invite you to think about your life journey until now, your education, the pledge of allegiance, the idea of the free market you grew up with and how that maps to ever growing wealth inequality, how health insurance is tied to employment, the endless support for war from both parties, the fact there are only 2 parties and this is somehow the pinnacle of democracy, the fact that no matter who you vote in they just do whatever capital tells them to do etc etc.
Again, propaganda is not the central issue for me here. But do you seriously think that an entire country that isn’t allowed to access outside media isn’t completely controlled by propaganda? Most of the US falls for it and that’s a problem, but we can still see outside perspectives. I was fortunate enough to go to top schools and I don’t even live in the US anymore. I was raised religious and said the pledge in school and all that like you said, but all that is completely obvious propaganda to me at this point, meaning I managed to escape it. What percentage of NK people can do the same? It’s literally illegal to have SK media in the dictatorship, let alone leave the country. If 2 parties don’t make a democracy how much worse is it to have one “party”, ie family?
I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue at this point. I’ve repeatedly said US has tons of propaganda. I don’t think the US is a great place and it’s obviously falling further into fascism every day. I guess what it comes down to in this comparison of only 2 countries is which one would you want to live in? When I was first having this argument with tankies a few years ago Demented Don wasn’t yet back in office, so the comparison was even more stark.
US is absolutely more propagandized than NK lmao, NK dont even need to propagandize their people against US, they just need to tell the truth about the horrific crimes US commited there. What has NK ever done against US to be this demonized? lol.
Look man, when you drop so many bombs on a country that people start living in caves, and your own pilots start complaining that there are no targets left to hit, I don’t think you get to position yourself as the good guy.
Is North Korea a place with a troublesome political culture and a cult of personality problem? Yeah, but if you wanna know who’s fault that is, go look in a mirror.
Is North Korea a place with a troublesome political culture and a cult of personality problem? Yeah, but if you wanna know who’s fault that is, go look in a mirror.
I see that we are conveniently ignoring the 38th parallel and the fact that North Korea started the Korean War.
You’re conveniently forgetting that the 38th parallel was an arbitrary border drawn by some white guys on a map, and that Korea was, albeit incredibly briefly, a unified Socialist state in 1945, prior to the externally imposed partition of the peninsula.
Further, while the north did cross the 38th parallel, border skirmishes went on before that point, and who truly “started” the war is murky.
You’re conveniently forgetting that the 38th parallel was an arbitrary border drawn by some white guys on a map
You make it look like it wasn’t agreed by both the US and the USSR, which it was.
and that Korea was, albeit incredibly briefly, a unified Socialist state in 1945, prior to the externally imposed partition of the peninsula.
Do we consider partial Soviet occupation an “unified socialist state” now?
while the north did cross the 38th parallel, border skirmishes went on before that point, and who truly “started” the war is murky
No it isn’t. There is no doubt that North Korea started the war, unless we are willing to be naive enough to believe that Operation Pokpung was planned and carried forth in response to “border skirmishes”. NK was stockpiling vehicles, ammo, and weapons, provided by the USSR, for a full year before June 1950.
Either that or say NK is a dictatorship. When I first got on lemmy I got dogpiled by the hexies because I dared to say NK is a highly propagandized country (even gasp* moreso than the US). Still waiting for even a single one of those guys to move countries to live under the Kim regime, which apparently is the chillest, friendliest place on earth.
Nowhere on earth is more propagandized than the US. It’s a literal $607B a year industry and it’s infected most of the planet at this stage.
Another wild ml account appears. Go live in NK and report back for me on the level of propaganda.
No, if you don’t see the propaganda level the United States has achieved, you’re blind.
Remember how every news channel on both sides of the aisle was denying Israel doing a genocide for the past 3 years?
Ever notice how every single news corp is owned by billionaire capitalists?
They are always great examples of the ol’ Whataboutisum.
I’m not a tankie I just find the content there more interesting than whatever bullshit PR puff pieces get posted elsewhere. Do you want to engage with what I said on a factual basis or is your max level ad hominem? The marketing industry literally evolved out of Freud’s psychoanalysis work as applied to US propaganda in the 2nd world war by his nephew Edward Bernays who then needed something else to apply it to after the war finished. American propaganda is so pervasive it’s fucking depressing. You go to Europe it’s there slapping you in the face. You go to South East Asia and it’s there again. I have never seen any NK propaganda outside what I see on Youtube.
Are the NK people free to watch whatever media they want? If not, they’re by definition more controlled by propaganda than the US. I haven’t seen a video ad in years. I watch leftist media. If I’m able to avoid right wing propaganda and the NKs are not, that’s a problem.
I’m not denying that the US has a massive propaganda problem. But comparing it to a closed state-run internet and media environment is just silly.
You’re not seeing this clearly. NK propaganda is so primitive they need to restrict the media people can consume. US propaganda mechanisms are so advanced and sophisticated that they can create the illusion of choice and the majority fall for it. There are so many avenues and strategies. The Koreans can’t compete. North Korea has a GDP of $34B. US marketing industry is nearly 18 times bigger than the whole of the NK economy. Do you understand what that means? They have to use crude methods because they can’t afford sophisticated ones.
I’d still say NK has more propaganda “per capita” (whether in a monetary sense or not), just because of their closed media. But I don’t actually care about propaganda as the main focus of the issue anyway. US has a propaganda problem, NK has a dictator problem. If you’re not a tankie that’s great and all but propaganda or not most of them on here portray NK as a great place to be and that’s what’s fucked.
Ye NK is not for me but we are world’s apart on this topic. It’s hard for me to articulate how propagandized the US is and how you are demonstrating that by thinking that NK is more propaganized. That very notion itself is proof of my observation but I realise this is not an argument that will cut through the noise for you and demonstrating this will be too time consuming so instead of arguing I would just invite you to think about your life journey until now, your education, the pledge of allegiance, the idea of the free market you grew up with and how that maps to ever growing wealth inequality, how health insurance is tied to employment, the endless support for war from both parties, the fact there are only 2 parties and this is somehow the pinnacle of democracy, the fact that no matter who you vote in they just do whatever capital tells them to do etc etc.
Again, propaganda is not the central issue for me here. But do you seriously think that an entire country that isn’t allowed to access outside media isn’t completely controlled by propaganda? Most of the US falls for it and that’s a problem, but we can still see outside perspectives. I was fortunate enough to go to top schools and I don’t even live in the US anymore. I was raised religious and said the pledge in school and all that like you said, but all that is completely obvious propaganda to me at this point, meaning I managed to escape it. What percentage of NK people can do the same? It’s literally illegal to have SK media in the dictatorship, let alone leave the country. If 2 parties don’t make a democracy how much worse is it to have one “party”, ie family?
I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue at this point. I’ve repeatedly said US has tons of propaganda. I don’t think the US is a great place and it’s obviously falling further into fascism every day. I guess what it comes down to in this comparison of only 2 countries is which one would you want to live in? When I was first having this argument with tankies a few years ago Demented Don wasn’t yet back in office, so the comparison was even more stark.
US is absolutely more propagandized than NK lmao, NK dont even need to propagandize their people against US, they just need to tell the truth about the horrific crimes US commited there. What has NK ever done against US to be this demonized? lol.
US bad doesn’t mean NK good, ya mook
when did I say that? good and bad are moralist positions, we marxists dont believe in moralism.
You’re all over this thread putting words into people’s mouths then get upset when someone does it back to you. Lmao.
That’s the wrong question
why? USA wiped out 12-15% of North korean population btw, they have every single right in the universe to demonize that country.
uh huh
?
yep
Look man, when you drop so many bombs on a country that people start living in caves, and your own pilots start complaining that there are no targets left to hit, I don’t think you get to position yourself as the good guy.
Is North Korea a place with a troublesome political culture and a cult of personality problem? Yeah, but if you wanna know who’s fault that is, go look in a mirror.
I see that we are conveniently ignoring the 38th parallel and the fact that North Korea started the Korean War.
You’re conveniently forgetting that the 38th parallel was an arbitrary border drawn by some white guys on a map, and that Korea was, albeit incredibly briefly, a unified Socialist state in 1945, prior to the externally imposed partition of the peninsula.
Further, while the north did cross the 38th parallel, border skirmishes went on before that point, and who truly “started” the war is murky.
You make it look like it wasn’t agreed by both the US and the USSR, which it was.
Do we consider partial Soviet occupation an “unified socialist state” now?
No it isn’t. There is no doubt that North Korea started the war, unless we are willing to be naive enough to believe that Operation Pokpung was planned and carried forth in response to “border skirmishes”. NK was stockpiling vehicles, ammo, and weapons, provided by the USSR, for a full year before June 1950.
OK? Did I ever say differently? Again, US = bad does not mean NK = good.
Is that why you support the killing of millions of USSR civis? Like legit?
when you are in a making shit up competition and your opponent is a kamla harris voter liberal:
Removed by mod
now you spittin