NoScript is one of the oldest browser addons for selectively blocking/allowing scripts and some other things, and it’s the only addon which comes preinstalled in Tor Browser. And yes, it has a dedicated toolbar button.

In this fucked-up world, it turns out that I end up blending in, just not with other people. Users who disallow javascripts are often mistaken for bots nowadays. We don’t stand out, and so we’re assumed to be bots. I think that if more people browsed without javascript it’d eventually be easier to distinguish between bots and people, and captchas could maybe die out.

Bottom left text gives reasons that relate to security, which is also related to privacy. I don’t trust arbitrary scripts, and I find it more convenient to simply disallow them. While css can theoretically be used to track mouse movements, that is typically done with javascripts, and I find that creepy af. I don’t like the feeling that I’m being observed. I get enough of that whenever I go outside into this dystopic world.

So on that note, as I’ve said in some other comments within this thread, I prefer static pages from a UX perspective. Static pages feel comfy and safe, at least in comparison to the alternative. In contrast, javascripts tend to make the UX of sites worse in my view. So there aren’t any compelling reasons for me to allow them most of the time.

It comes down to this: What do I gain by allowing javascripts? What I see is largely nothing. What do I lose by allowing javascripts? Comfort, calm, and a relaxed experience.

lol you have no idea

🐝

I was talking about my own experiences. We can agree to disagree on what is a better user experience, as it’s inherently subjective. I can’t think of a site I’ve come across that was made better by javascripts, from my own perspective and experiences. I have always been let down and frustrated by such sites and always relieved to find static sites.

It is only your opinion that dynamic UI elements aren’t worth it.

Yes. And for all of the reasons I’ve given, I stand by my opinions on javascripts. You’re free to disagree. I wasn’t trying to convince anyone, just sharing my experiences and opinions on them.

Sorry if I came across as dismissive of your experiences and opinions.

i am sometimes like this too ^^’ except i rarely get enough sleep anyway

the thing that characterizes disorders is that they get in the way of life, so technically if your obsessiveness is only productive and not a hindrance then it wouldn’t be categorized as a disorder. but i do wonder about that sometimes. cuz like, what if there were someone who very clearly had ocd or adhd but no other peculiarities and somehow was able to manage it even though it was quite obvious? just feels like we should probably have other terms for such things beyond the rigid definitions we currently have…(end of random mini-rant)

In reality now it’s used for full on software applications.

I think software applications are better made as actual applications instead of browser-based web-apps.

it’s also used for dynamically updating the UI.

It might seem useful on the surface but is prone to the same sorts of breakage and annoyances I was talking about.

A world you speak of would mean much worse order forms, paperwork for doctors, etc. I mean you do you, but you can’t just not acknowledge that dynamic updates of a UI are better than filling out a long form then getting back “invalid data, you selected this and entered that, start over”.

That’s an interesting example, because that’s happened to both of my parents within the past few months from two different healthcare-related sites. The javascript elements frustrated them more than me, since they didn’t understand why certain things weren’t working, and I had to figure it out for them. And there were a few times when we had to start over due to the sites being poorly made.

That’s really what I see in this reliance on javascripts, corner-cutting which causes problems. Properly-configured sites work better, and the ones reliant on javascript tend not to be.

I would prefer static order forms so that I can have the entire form and fill it out before submitting, while retaining a copy so that if there were issues I could more quickly and efficiently resubmit with the corrections.

Some people might prefer the dynamically updating UI stuff, but except for live chats I can’t see a good use for it that static pages can’t do better. And I think live chats are better in non-web apps which support end-to-end encryption anyway.

The tracking concerns are mostly mitigated by vpns, ad blockers, and private browser features.

The most useful and efficient private browsing feature is the ability to disable javascripts. Using vpns and ad-blockers protects against very specific vectors of surveillance, while javascripts allow a diverse set of surveillance capabilities, so blocking them protects against several forms of surveillance. And with more people disabling javascripts, we all blend together better.

you may prefer static documents, but modern society is built on forms and other types of vital apps, which would inevitably be worse without javascript.

Modern society is also built on ignorance, conformity, and exploitation, all of which make javascript-based sites more dangerous and prone to issues. It’s the easy answer thrown at every problem, like “a.i.” and is similarly dangerous.

don’t forget to drink lots of water 🚰 (which i coincidentally have a hard time remembering)

i’m still slightly confused. are you saying you have ocd or that you can relate to it? cuz like, it can be very selective, or like on-and-off when it comes to triggers and releases of the tensions. idk if that’s the best way to word it but whatevs.

I am actually less-knowledgeable than you on these kinds of things, as I’ve still not yet setup my own services and know next-to-nothing about the dev part of web-dev. I have no real experience yet. The things I know come from a user perspective. Sorry to disappoint.

are those meant to be ocd jokes, cuz I don’t understand the first one ><

i can also be quite irrational, in the ocd kinda way

When it comes to browser addons, it is generally recommended to have as few as possible in order to reduce attack surface, since a higher number increases the chance of having one that becomes compromised. It’s especially relevant with browser addons because they tend to have lots of capabilities/permissions and can therefore do lots of damage.

lol, well i do love the odd scale, but there is a lack of emojis too, so i suppose i’d have to say about 3π/2

And which side is the seduced one?

good question :p

seductive tortoise is a rooster illusion? 🫦🐢🟰🐓❔️ idk what it means but i’m fascinated

I will give qubes-whonix a shot, you have convinced me!

You definitely shouldn’t rush into Qubes OS. If you’re seriously interested, I’d recommend checking out videos and reading about it so you can understand it a little deeper.

Out of curiosity, what harm are you concerned about JavaScript doing with an ad blocker and while loading sites within a container? That seems extreme to me.

Besides that fact that javascripts can be used to track and profile users, they also make the user experience of sites worse. I love static pages. Sites that require javascripts are the polar opposite of that. Useless blur effects and other “features” can cause pages to be significantly slower than static pages, and I absolutely hate it. I should be able to scroll smoothly and click buttons once the page has loaded, and I should be able to keep pages cached indefinitely. With javascripts, scrolling can often be laggy, buttons can appear and disappear in odd ways, and pages can be automatically reloaded without my consent, causing lots of frustrations. I cannot understand how anyone prefers browsing the web with javascripts. They are a fucking cancer, like 99% of the time.

Yes, OpenDyslexicAlta Bold ^^

Okay I just did some cursory research and it doesn’t sound simple. Is it just installing qubes-whonix and creating a template (I’m guessing a yaml config or similar)?

During the installation of Qubes OS, you can select a checkbox to have Whonix templates and qubes automatically installed. After installation, you can simply click a launcher to start an app like Tor browser in a new disposable whonix qube from the disposable whonix template. It really is that simple. Installing Qubes OS does take a while though.

As far as sites with JavaScript being “broken”, that one puzzles me. I have tried turning off JavaScript in the past and probably 70% of websites became fully non functional.

Yes, those sites which become non-functional without javascripts are very much broken.

That shouldn’t be the case, but it often is, and my impression has been that this has gotten worse, not better.

Yes, much of the web is broken. On a related note, much of the web is infested with malicious ads and trackers.

I’m a web developer and no one talks about progressive enhancement anymore and frankly my coworkers have mostly thought it’s silly to even try to support users who turn off JavaScript.

That’s a shame. And yeah, those are basically just dead sites. If they’re non-functional then there’s really no point for them to exist.

As the web continues to devolve, with a growing graveyard of dead sites (and an increasing prevalence of malicious scripts), I hope that more people wake up to the reality that this is bad. It’s similar to the dead-end that is google’s android. Eventually they’ll pull it away and leave a lot of people scrambling for their next option. I think the modern web will go through a similar transformation one day. I hope so.