• culprit@lemmy.ml
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      18 hours ago

      All liberalism is on the right. The left starts at anti-capitalism. It’s been that way for quite a long time now. Liberals just like to act like they are “center-left” because it helps maintain the capital order.

      • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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        36 minutes ago

        Liberals just like to act like they are “center-left” because it helps maintain the capital order.

        Also because liberalism started as the “left”; being anti-monarchy and advocating for a representative democracy. It’s well after when liberalism became the status quo that it became the default ideology and thus became the new conservative or right.

      • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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        6 hours ago

        You can be anticapitalist and liberal at the same time, you just need to believe that people should have the right to live as they’d like.

        • kgbbot@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 hour ago

          Yeah, that’s like saying you live in a forest fire, but believe folks can decide to not just spontaneously combust

          • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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            1 hour ago

            One describes the level of control authorities have over your life, the other is an economic system.

            I know that conflating the two would really make tankie arguments much simpler, but unfortunately they are separate dimensions of politics.

        • Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 hour ago

          You are free to have a personal definition of the word “liberal” that differs from the widely accepted academic definition. It’s just not helpful in discussion to assume everyone else uses that definition.

          • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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            52 minutes ago

            Okay.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

            Yup. Checks out. Rights of the individual, government through consent, etc…sounda like I’m using the commonly accepted academic definition.

            Are you perhaps using the American definition provided by Fox News/tankies, that the meme references?

        • culprit@lemmy.ml
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          6 hours ago

          That’s just pure ideology based in propaganda. Liberalism is inherently pro-capitalism, and you are deluding yourself if you don’t understand that. You can’t separate politics and economics, that’s why marxists use the term “political economy”.

          • zoloftt@lemmy.world
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            5 hours ago

            This is quite the nothing-burger reply you’ve assembled. What’s the definition of Liberal you’re operating on?

            Honestly, I’ve reread your first sentence so many times. I might make a hat with it.

          • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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            6 hours ago

            If the idea that people should have the freedom to control their own lives is inherently capitalist, you’ve just convinced me that capitalism is inherently good.

            • culprit@lemmy.ml
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              5 hours ago

              Propaganda has burrowed so deep into your thinking. Capital accumulation is inherently oppressive.

              • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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                5 hours ago

                I didn’t know that freedom to live your life as you see fit was the accumulation of capital.

                • culprit@lemmy.ml
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                  5 hours ago

                  Your continued conflation of personal liberty and capitalism is the core of your confusion. Fix that flaw in your understanding, and you might be able to reckon with the reality of political economy without these propaganda fairtales obscuring the truth.

                  • Talcosis@lemmy.zip
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                    5 hours ago

                    No, I pretty clearly said one can be anticapitalist and liberal. I am not conflating the two in any way. One is about accumulating capital, the other is about not having to live life the way your king says you must.