It’s always “Won’t somebody please think of the children?!?!” till kids get shot then it’s “eh who cares. That’s the price of freedom baby!!!”
The best-funded media have sold the message that college students and politically-active aunties who have seen one too many local children die are the elites. The ‘elite’ label can be stuck on anyone who exerts influence, it implies power pejoratively but not descriptively. That’s why revolutionaries use more precise terms like capital owner instead.
Of course, I don’t like the term “elite” either and honestly should have altered the meme
Collapse and revolution are the same thing. And you can’t guillotine anyone, as a rule, without due process at a minimum. Swap out the word “elites” in your comment with any other group name and it should swiftly become clear why.
It’s one of the cruel jokes of the world that those who call for war the loudest are those who’ve never seen it, while those who’ve fought in them are the ones who wait until it’s absolutely necessary to do so again - or who actually appreciate what “absolutely necessary” means.
deleted by creator
There is a reason we identify bourgeoisie through their direct connection to the system of production as owners of the means of production. You can’t swap out elite for “any other group” because the reasoning would be gone. “Any other group” is not directly responsible for the impoverishment of the imperial periphery, for their acute destitution. “Any other group” is not funding paramilitary death squads to control resources that make number go up. “Any other group” doesn’t knowingly uphold the system that makes homelessness necessary. “Any other group” doesn’t regularly commit genocides. If you are comfortable trying to vote these people out of existence feel free to walk into that swamp but don’t try convincing others to do so.
I understand your fear. I am also scared. I’m deathly fucking terrified of revolution. I am terrified of what the state will do to me for daring to challenge them. I am terrified of what they will do to the people I love. I am terrified of what it will take for the average American to fight back. I desperately want to run and flee the country but we are beyond that epoch. There is no safe place to run to. It is cowardice to blind yourself and believe we can simply ask them to stop. Hell, it isn’t just cowardice, it’s dangerous. The longer we wait to end this system the more people it will slaughter. I fear the state but my fear is outweighed by the shame of doing nothing while I watch it commit unspeakable acts in my name.
Revolution is not a tea party or a bed of roses. Any revolutionary will tell you this, all of them know it. I know in my heart I won’t live to my parents age. I know in my heart I will see and experience horrors they have never suffered. Most likely I die a miserable lonely death not even knowing the fates of those I love. And I’m angry about it.
Collapse is already coming, climate change is going to fuck us. If we are going to collapse anyway why not revolt and save those who can be saved. They certainly won’t be saved by our current leadership.
It’s good to see a kindred spirit. I couldn’t have said it better myself. And if revolution comes, men like me are the ones who everyone downvoting me will end up following, because I’ve already been through war and know exactly what to do and what to expect. I pity those foolish enough to mistake my caution, and my desire for peaceful methods, as either cowardice or inability. When the violence they’re calling for comes, I’ll be out there showing them what real violence actually looks like while they’re shitting their pants, because they have no idea but I regretfully know all too well.
That said, the point where diplomacy and due process get abandoned and the fee of liberty gets its thirst quenched isn’t here. Our democracy has not collapsed. Elections still happen - we’ll likely be seeing a major power shift in the midterms.
My fear is not what the government will do if we fight them. That’s predictable and frankly very manageable. My greater fear is what will happen after we’ve “won.” I fear what we will do. Because if you think the answer is “put down our weapons” then you haven’t read the third act of many revolutions in history.
Our democracy has not collapsed
Yours is a “democracy” of slavers and genocidaires, quite literally. If it hasn’t collapsed, it should.
Elections still happen - we’ll likely be seeing a major power shift in the midterms
Elections are not a viable instrument for effecting relevant change. You are not even presented with relevant choices.
My greater fear is what will happen after we’ve “won.” I fear what we will do. Because if you think the answer is “put down our weapons” then you haven’t read the third act of many revolutions in history
Socialist revolutions have historically been very successful in improving their people’s living standards. Why would one “fear” that?
You can in fact guillotine people without due process, laws are upheld for the ruling class of society. Revolution is the conquest of political power by the revolutionary class in society. Simply saying “violence bad” because it’s directed against capitalists and fascists by saying it can be used against anyone is not an argument.
Perhaps “can” want the right word. I’m aware we technically “can” run around guillotining our neighbors without due process. We shouldn’t.
“Saying ‘violence bad’ because it’s directed against capitalists and fascists…”
I’ll be sure to pass that along to anyone who says that. I’m saying war is bad, period. Fascists are an example of the kinds of people that make war necessary. And it may yet come to that. But it hasn’t yet. Our democracy has not been dismantled. Diplomatic options remain available to us. We’re very likely going to see a shift in power come midterms - which itself demonstrates why war is not yet needed.
I’m not saying war is never called for, and nobody ever deserves to die. The overwhelming majority of the people I’ve killed deserved to die. But war isn’t that cut and dried. The scenario where we address the problems we’re having without a revolution remains drastically superior and preferable to the scenario where we must fight a revolution.
There is no such thing as democracy in a capitalist system. Democrats are not a path to “saving” anything except imperialism. There is no path to “saving” capitalism, socialism is necessary and socialism cannot be elected in.
Also, wild to let it slip that you’ve killed people and that they “deserved it,” if you’re an imperialist boot it’s safe to say none of them did. You killed innocents for oil execs.
The addition of the red hat means the people pictured actually support the elites in question.
Having said that, you’re talking about violent revolution. Look at basically every example in history. They all get much worse before they get better. The people that need to die, die. Sure. And it’s satisfying because those people historically have grown beyond what conventional institutions of justice could do anything about. Problem is, the revolution doesn’t just stop once the problem is gone. People don’t stop dying, they just stop deserving it.
Point is, people are armed as a desperate last resort that we pray we will never need, because people who’ve actually fought in wars know that outcome is far worse and far more horrifying than any diplomatic compromise would have been. War is not how you solve a handful of wealthy elites who are effectively above the law. It’s how you solve families being executed in the streets or put into concentration camps. We’re not there yet. Though admittedly we’re closer than we’ve ever been - ironically thanks to people in red hats.
Revolution has dramatically improved the lives of the people in most cases. They usually have a chaotic period of stabilization, but in the long run bring immense positives, especially in socialist countries.
Of course they do. Historically they’ve only happened when a country reached a point where there were was no other recourse. At that point, of course they’re going to make things better - “worse” isn’t really a possibility when revolution becomes necessary, which is kind of the point. Leaping to war before that point, on the other hand… well, there aren’t any examples of that which come to mind. Which suggests that, on the bright side, people apparently tend not to resort to revolution until it’s actually required.
Historically they’ve only happened when a country reached a point where there were was no other recourse
Hindsight 20/20 or something like that.
I am very confident that you would not be saying this about the Russian Empire in its later years.There’s no path to fixing capitalism, though. That’s the point.