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Ukraine support for Israel preceed the invasion and Israel did nothing to help Ukraine in contrary voted against UN, resolution condrmning Russia aggression and have zero sanctions on it
It is wrong when Ukraine does it , it is bad when russia does it , it is bad when the usa does it , it is bad when the rest of europe does it, it is bad when china does not use it’s economical power to restrict israel . I do not advocate for attacking any middle man especially not Ukraine who is also experiencing a war of aggression on Ukraine
Does that matter to the people the UKR military kills in Iran and helps kill in Palestine?
But no, the Ukranian people have not had a choice in anything since having their government surgically replaced in 2014, or for that matter since having their government illegally dissolved in 1991.
My point with this specific post, as an olive branch to people who may not be familiar with the communist position, is not “Ukraine bad” so much as “This is what eventually happens to every American ‘ally’ no matter what promises have been made to the contrary, and other countries had best take notice”.
I don’t understand why tankies can’t make the logical step from “governments of the west don’t care about any peoples’ sovereignty (despite justifying their war efforts with claims that they do) because ultimately they just serve whatever keeps them in power” to “no governments care about any peoples’ sovereignty because ultimately they just serve whatever keeps them in power”
I actually did make that exact step as a teenage anarchist. Then I continued learning and realized this was an incorrect generalization, so I proceeded to update my understanding of the world in accordance with my dataset, something I have continued to do to this day and which has led me here. I followed a path of careful fact finding and reflection, and it turns out that political maturity is realizing the commies were correct.
If you learn enough, stay humble enough, and pay close enough attention, eventually that’s what happens. You realize that, generally speaking, the really high-octane commies have the most lucid understanding of the world out of any group out there, and the only reason this wasn’t always obvious to you was because you live under a capitalist power structure which aggressively indoctrinates its populace from birth into believing that communism is No No Bad Bad.
They have the most lucid and correct understanding of capitalism. They have the most lucid and correct understanding of imperialist extraction. They have the most lucid and correct understanding of western warmongering, global power dynamics, white supremacy, institutional racism and misogyny. That’s why they keep being proven right, about everything from US military actions to the fascism of the far right to the abusive nature of the so-called “moderate” liberal to the moral depravity of billionaires and the capitalist class.
there’s no group which perceives the abusive dynamics of this civilization with a greater degree of intellectual clarity as a whole.
…except for anarcho-communists who actually know what they’re talking about.
I don’t disagree with this as a whole–Marxists are pretty much dead on with most of their analysis and see the world a hell of a lot more clearly than people still indoctrinated by capitalism. The problem is that Marxists-Leninists don’t go far enough when they diagnose the problems with capitalist society. They think it’s enough that power structures are seized by the proletariat and set up to align with their interests, as they believe (based on their analysis of how societies work) this will inherently cause the power structures to wither away over time. But that’s not how power works. You can’t fully reduce it down to class conflict.
When a Marxist says “the history of societies is the history of class struggle”, imo there are two ways to read it:
(a) Class and class struggle has made up the core of all societies’ structure and general existence for all history; or
(b) There is nothing else to societies’ structure or general existence that is not reducible to class and class struggle
I agree with (a). It’s supported by history and evidence. (b) inherently can’t be because it presupposes itself.
From my own understanding of history, I think that a strictly ML understanding of how societies work misses a vitally important aspect of the role power plays. I could be wrong about that! But I’ve yet to see a ML explanation of why it’s necessarily wrong. And I think the reason for that it because ML theory presupposes itself. It wants to say (b). And in that sense, I think it’s actually a wildly un-humble framework: not only does it make the bold claim that all of history is just class, it forms the basis for governments that force this restrictive historical understanding on people and dismiss any other framework as liberal or reactionary.
As the article claims about MLs, there are plenty of anarchists who don’t know what they’re talking about–who have a really shallow understanding of power or are secretly just liberals. But anarcho-communism is thus far the only framework I’ve found that addresses all of the historical dynamics and structures identified by Marx and Marxists while still being humble enough to admit that it doesn’t necessarily hold all the right answers and that it’s not the only valid framework out there.
…except for anarcho-communists who actually know what they’re talking about.
That must be why anarcho-communism is the tendency that has spawned the most successful revolutions and uplifted all those hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. Oh, wait.
while still being humble enough to admit that it doesn’t necessarily hold all the right answers and that it’s not the only valid framework out there.
except for anarcho-communists who actually know what they’re talking about.
Ooh, time for the classic “we violently shut down your attempt at revolution, therefore your theory must not work” argument y’all like to use that totally isn’t just a repackage of the liberal argument about why communism doesn’t work. You’re so caught up in your dogma that you’re repeating the same gaslighting shit capitalists spout to justify why capitalism/liberal democracy is the only realistic system.
I deleted my original comment because it wasn’t worded very well and came from a place of frustration and exhaustion. But what I was attempting to get at with “context-dependent dynamics” is that the model of history described by Marx can’t be claimed to hold explanatory power in every possible aspect of sociology/anthropology/social sciences generally, because that’s not how any model of anything works (as you said). Whenever I get into these conversations with MLs, it feels like they can’t conceive of there being an aspect of how the human world works that isn’t reducible to class struggle and dialectical materialism. Comparing it to physics, it’s like they’re hearing about quantum mechanics and all the extra complications and nuances that introduced in order to explain results that classical physics couldn’t, and just perpetually going “nah, classical physics has been right about everything else. We must just be mismeasuring these results.”
So true, bestie. When you completely make up nonsensical positions and assign them to people, completely unrelated to what they say or believe, those positions are indeed nonsensical!
They could have made a peace settlement a month in to the war in March 2022, given the DPR and LPR independence and not had to deal with anymore Russian invasions. But instead they listened to people like Boris Johnson enthusiastically telling them to fight to the last Ukrainian because we’ll keep giving you weapons.
i dunno you could try and fight against the invasion or whatever cia fairy tale you tell yourself to believe you’re not a nazi yet without supporting a literal nazi state? oh yeah, the ukronazis are also fascist bastards so that’s what they want.
Ever heard of the ethnic cleansing of the Donbas? The fact that the UKR regime’s attempt at a Holocaust was stopped at “only” a few thousand ethnic Russians does not make them magically not Nazis, nor does it change the perscription.
Do they have much of a choice while they’re being invaded?
Ukraine support for Israel preceed the invasion and Israel did nothing to help Ukraine in contrary voted against UN, resolution condrmning Russia aggression and have zero sanctions on it
Basically all of Europe and the US supported Israel in some fashion pre-invasion. Skip the middle man and invade Israel instead then.
It is wrong when Ukraine does it , it is bad when russia does it , it is bad when the usa does it , it is bad when the rest of europe does it, it is bad when china does not use it’s economical power to restrict israel . I do not advocate for attacking any middle man especially not Ukraine who is also experiencing a war of aggression on Ukraine
Does that matter to the people the UKR military kills in Iran and helps kill in Palestine?
But no, the Ukranian people have not had a choice in anything since having their government surgically replaced in 2014, or for that matter since having their government illegally dissolved in 1991.
My point with this specific post, as an olive branch to people who may not be familiar with the communist position, is not “Ukraine bad” so much as “This is what eventually happens to every American ‘ally’ no matter what promises have been made to the contrary, and other countries had best take notice”.
I don’t understand why tankies can’t make the logical step from “governments of the west don’t care about any peoples’ sovereignty (despite justifying their war efforts with claims that they do) because ultimately they just serve whatever keeps them in power” to “no governments care about any peoples’ sovereignty because ultimately they just serve whatever keeps them in power”
I actually did make that exact step as a teenage anarchist. Then I continued learning and realized this was an incorrect generalization, so I proceeded to update my understanding of the world in accordance with my dataset, something I have continued to do to this day and which has led me here. I followed a path of careful fact finding and reflection, and it turns out that political maturity is realizing the commies were correct.
…except for anarcho-communists who actually know what they’re talking about.
I don’t disagree with this as a whole–Marxists are pretty much dead on with most of their analysis and see the world a hell of a lot more clearly than people still indoctrinated by capitalism. The problem is that Marxists-Leninists don’t go far enough when they diagnose the problems with capitalist society. They think it’s enough that power structures are seized by the proletariat and set up to align with their interests, as they believe (based on their analysis of how societies work) this will inherently cause the power structures to wither away over time. But that’s not how power works. You can’t fully reduce it down to class conflict.
When a Marxist says “the history of societies is the history of class struggle”, imo there are two ways to read it: (a) Class and class struggle has made up the core of all societies’ structure and general existence for all history; or (b) There is nothing else to societies’ structure or general existence that is not reducible to class and class struggle
I agree with (a). It’s supported by history and evidence. (b) inherently can’t be because it presupposes itself.
From my own understanding of history, I think that a strictly ML understanding of how societies work misses a vitally important aspect of the role power plays. I could be wrong about that! But I’ve yet to see a ML explanation of why it’s necessarily wrong. And I think the reason for that it because ML theory presupposes itself. It wants to say (b). And in that sense, I think it’s actually a wildly un-humble framework: not only does it make the bold claim that all of history is just class, it forms the basis for governments that force this restrictive historical understanding on people and dismiss any other framework as liberal or reactionary.
As the article claims about MLs, there are plenty of anarchists who don’t know what they’re talking about–who have a really shallow understanding of power or are secretly just liberals. But anarcho-communism is thus far the only framework I’ve found that addresses all of the historical dynamics and structures identified by Marx and Marxists while still being humble enough to admit that it doesn’t necessarily hold all the right answers and that it’s not the only valid framework out there.
That must be why anarcho-communism is the tendency that has spawned the most successful revolutions and uplifted all those hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. Oh, wait.
Ooh, time for the classic “we violently shut down your attempt at revolution, therefore your theory must not work” argument y’all like to use that totally isn’t just a repackage of the liberal argument about why communism doesn’t work. You’re so caught up in your dogma that you’re repeating the same gaslighting shit capitalists spout to justify why capitalism/liberal democracy is the only realistic system.
Because that’s a kindergarten understanding of socialist/ML theory and politics in general
deleted by creator
Can you think of any non context-dependent dynamics?
I deleted my original comment because it wasn’t worded very well and came from a place of frustration and exhaustion. But what I was attempting to get at with “context-dependent dynamics” is that the model of history described by Marx can’t be claimed to hold explanatory power in every possible aspect of sociology/anthropology/social sciences generally, because that’s not how any model of anything works (as you said). Whenever I get into these conversations with MLs, it feels like they can’t conceive of there being an aspect of how the human world works that isn’t reducible to class struggle and dialectical materialism. Comparing it to physics, it’s like they’re hearing about quantum mechanics and all the extra complications and nuances that introduced in order to explain results that classical physics couldn’t, and just perpetually going “nah, classical physics has been right about everything else. We must just be mismeasuring these results.”
I don’t even know what you’re saying tbh. Context dependent dynamics? Power is bad and context is bad? Is that from some anarchist theory?
That’s a position I respect. Yep.
Yes American promises are why Russia invaded despite being signatories to a treaty guaranteeing Ukrainian sovereignty.
Why do you think Russia invaded?
Excuses are great, still breaks a treaty.
That sort of thing has a real cost in geopolitics.
Condescension aside, saying that in favor of the faction that kicked this off by breaking both Minsk Agreements is some crazy irony
Anyway why did Russia cross the border, according to you?
Ukraine didn’t break the Minsk agreements and no reputable source claims they did.
Russia invaded Ukraine because they fear neighbouring states that aren’t under Russia’s boot.
If you were a communist you’d recognise that Russia is a totalitarian Oligarchy and a terrible place for the proletariat.
That’s the best part. They’re communist in name only. Like China!
They can’t understand anything not told to them by propaganda outlets, don’t expect them to know history or reality.
This is just chauvinistic. The further away from your place the less trustworthy you are of it.
It just comes off as ironic considering the name of your account is someone who was persecuted and and put down by society of people like YOU.
So true, bestie. When you completely make up nonsensical positions and assign them to people, completely unrelated to what they say or believe, those positions are indeed nonsensical!
That really tells us a lot about the world 🤓
ahh, yes, what else could they do when they’re being invaded other than committing genocide. poor ukronazis!
OK. So they should let Russia run their tanks through their towns and take over? What’s the take here?
They could have made a peace settlement a month in to the war in March 2022, given the DPR and LPR independence and not had to deal with anymore Russian invasions. But instead they listened to people like Boris Johnson enthusiastically telling them to fight to the last Ukrainian because we’ll keep giving you weapons.
That specifically is fair. That was a fairly small window of time though.
i dunno you could try and fight against the invasion or whatever cia fairy tale you tell yourself to believe you’re not a nazi yet without supporting a literal nazi state? oh yeah, the ukronazis are also fascist bastards so that’s what they want.
So they didn’t invade? You can call them Nazis all you like but let’s live in reality.
Germany was a Nazi state and they got invaded, whats your point
After they invaded many other nations beforehand?
Good, so we agree that simply being invaded does not suddenly put a government on the right side of history.
There’s a bit of a difference between a punch to the face and a punch to the face in return. Or are we going to pretend these are the same thing?
After they started a world war and killed millions. Ever heard of the Holocaust?
Not really a comparison.
Ever heard of the ethnic cleansing of the Donbas? The fact that the UKR regime’s attempt at a Holocaust was stopped at “only” a few thousand ethnic Russians does not make them magically not Nazis, nor does it change the perscription.
How many ethnic Russians have died in this war? I bet it’s more than a few thousand.
It is nonetheless cometely different than the juatification against Nazi Germany you made.
And the fact that you are doubleing down on that bad comparision shows how your post has seen any seld reflection.
Again, comparing WW2 against the attack of russia agains ukrain.