I introduced a friend to TNG by having them watch Sub Rosa first and it worked.
That’s called a pro move. ^^
I don’t know about you but I think this is about the funniest line ever https://youtu.be/XNldsEX9pF0
It’s the slow nonchalant lean in and equally slow nonchalant return that makes it. Picardo’s physical mannerisms are peak comedy.
Janeway’s reaction just tops off the scene.
It is pretty great. ^^
That’s fantastic
Threshold is one of the only Voyager episodes I can recall the entire plot of just by name
It’s not just famous, it’s INfamous!
Severely overhated episode. Robert Duncan McNeills performance in it is outstanding imo.
I liked the episodes without Kathryn Janeway, B’Elanna Torres, Tom Paris, or Neelix.
All episodes that involved any of those 4, I would call asleep 10 minutes in. 🥱
How many Harry Kim episodes are there?
These are the big three, right: TNG, DS9, and VOY? And, of course, TOS.
I never got into VOY, maybe because it felt like a step backwards from DS9… but I think I need to give it another try.
I will stand up for ENT.
Sure it has issues, but the idea of having this prototype ship and going out there into the unknown is super cool. It has solid enough acting, especially by Scott Bacula and Connor Trinneer, with good support from John Billingsly and Linda Park. The rest of the main cast can be hit or miss, although the writing can also be blamed for that a lot of the time, you can only work with what you got. As usual Jeffrey Combs is all over this, making it a true Star Trek show. The stories can be very much hit or miss as well, but it has some excellent stuff in there.
I feel like ENT has a lot of good with the bad and is worth a watch for sure.
Enterprise is my favorite and I don’t care what anyone thinks.
Jonathan Archer boldly ignores the best advice of his entire senior staff, then learns why he should have listened. He’s not a glistening golden Starfleet captain, he’s a napo navy baby in space and it shows. It’s fuckin well done goddamnit.
Trip and Phlox are delightful characters and are among the most flushed out in Trek. Also Porthos is there. Who else had pets? Data. And no one else. And we love Data.
ENT was better than Voyager, but the self-sabotaging theme song really hurt it.
All of Berman’s sex-obsessed decontamination scenes get looked down on, but if Roddenberry was still alive and finally had his way, there would probably have been much more gratuitous scenes than applying gell to each other. 🤪
Dr Phlox was a fantastic character who regularly faced character development.
T’Pol had tons of difficult struggles and she never let her beliefs be compromised even if it meant punishment for not selling out others. She went through a lot of trauma and found herself deep in drug addiction in S3
Travis and Hoshi were great characters too. They could have used more character development opportunities IMHO but they were pretty badass at what they did.
The pre-kirk/spock bond between archer and T’pol was heartwarming. They really came to trust each other by being there for each other.
But some of the most unique and special elements of ENT were :
- You see Vulcans a lot, and they aren’t the enlightened Vulcans of Spock’s era. Their society in that time period is in baaaad shape, with Romulans actively trying to undermine their society. You see them struggle like any society has to at some point in their evolution, and some of the social issues they work into it are brilliant.
- You learn more about the Andorians than you will EVER learn in any other show, and with Jeffrey Combs as the liason. (and the cute little bromance between Archer and Shran 🥹)
Extremely well put. Congratulations. I don’t think I can agree more with any of this. Also the whole Xindi arc was awesome in my opinion.
Fuck that opening song though. I hope I never hear it again.
It’s my wife’s favorite Star Trek (she loves T’Pol), largely because it was a re-watch of this that got her into Star Trek. She and I were both NASA nerds as kids (both having attended Space Camp) and ENT does a great job of bridging the space program we know with the Star Trek we know.
It’s been a looooong road
It was much better than I expected ngl
VOY is my feel good Star Trek show. There are less super impressive single episodes compared to other Trek shows, but I genuinely enjoy the setting, the cast and specific character development. It’s never too cheerful or too dark. It just hits my sweet spot. An itch no other Trek show can scratch.
VOY is my feel good Star Trek show.
Well, there’s my problem: I’m an inveterately miserable bastard.
Thats what the Doctor is there for 😂 one of the few characters who rolls their eyes as hard as I do
It’s me and the doctor against the world. Mostly.
Voyager is a mixed bag. I watched it a good bit on broadcast back in the day but im just now doing a full binge (im like 2/3 through s2 atm so Seven of Nine hasn’t even shown up yet). There are some rather strong episodes, plenty of weak ones. The majority is fairly middle-of-the-road, which feels worse when held up to TNG and DS9. My understanding is a lot of people felt it leaned a bit too heavily on time travel and holodeck gimmicks. And, of course, Chakotay’s fake Native American lore is suuuuper cringe knowing what we do now, but you can mostly overlook it.
It’s generally worth watching at least once, but I wouldn’t do so on the tail of one of those. DS9 especially lol
I still crack up anytime they start to broach Chakotay’s “Native American, but in SPAAACE” stuff and you hear that pan flute music start to play.
Which gives me an idea for a new meme format: First panel details some New Age gibberish, second panel is Chakotay with a bracketed subtitle saying “Pan flute music intensifies”
The end love interest of Chakotay resonated badly imo. Granted age gaps of 15-20 yrs were common in movies/TV in that decade. God forbid Hollywood pairs up two people who are the same age.
I hate time travel, unless it’s Star Trek. I grew up on it, so contextually it’s just part of Star Trek. Anyone else does it and I will stop watching/reading midway through.
How about a structured walk through, focusing on characters or some other aspect of the show? Like 7/9 seems like she probably has a really interesting arc.
I’m not even talking about the quality of the show. DS9 was pushing arcs and political complexity, and Voyager could do neither within an episodic format (at least as far as I watched).
VOY did two things extremely well: the building of a found family and crack episodes
What is a crack episode? Is that a Very Special Episode? Or just really good ones?
Stuff like Bride of Chaotica! Episodes that are just on crack
Ironically this also means Threshold
It’s the episodes where the crew comes across a planet with a naturally occurring stimulant and develops a new form of space crack. There was a lot of that in the delta quadrant, for some reason.
yes, because drug addiction is just a chemicnl interaction and has nothing to do with the environmeot. ugh.
First couple (few?) seasons of Voyager are weak. Later is ok.
Same with DS9 and TNG. 🤷♀️
The first few seasons of TOS were gold, though.
Early TNG was weird and goofy, DS9 was 12 angry officers, Voyager was just weak.
I really disliked Voyager, because it seemed like it was structured to be unrealistic. They pulled resources out of nowhere, and I thought Janeway was sometimes actually really doing ethically questionable stuff and was not actually what I’d consider to be a great captain. DS9 was on at the same time and I thought DS9 was a much better show. I also didn’t like how they added Seven to the show, because it seemed like the whole point was just for her to be gawked at. And they should have had her wearing a normal uniform. It really stuck out to me and took me out of the ability to watch the show.
I also thought that the whole premise of the show didn’t work, because Janeway could have found a way to blow up the array in the first episode but after at least a majority of the people on Voyager had made it through, like maybe blowing it up with a shuttle craft.
Also, when they found out about getting through to the Alpha Quadrant but back in time, why the hell not travel through back in time and then figure out a way to travel to the future. That seemed a lot more viable than the continued slog.
And I was also not a fan of the “Borg Queen”, as she made the Borg much less terrifying and much less effective. I felt like the character was created to tantalize the audience instead of to be a good character.
But I really did not like Janeway. And it seemed like a lot of her plans and priorities were not good.
And I thought that she did things that were absolutely unethical and people didn’t acknowledge while at the same time condemning other people for doing things that were ethically questionable but not necessarily bad.
But meanwhile, I was watching Sisko over on DS9 and he was a man who absolutely had a strong moral center but was being forced to do all kinds of things that he didn’t necessarily agree with and didn’t want to do. He seemed conflicted but seemed like in general a much more morally centered character, even when he did those things.
Nothing against people who really liked Voyager, but it wasn’t really my thing.
How come Cisco, a man well within reach of federation support and with a fully stocked station gets the benefit of the doubt when he goes genociding an entire planet with what is essentially a chemical weapon, but Janeway is evil, because she does similar things while cut off from federation, surrounded b enemies with a ship and ressouces always at the edge of running out?
The decision not to destroy the phalanx was scrutinized to hell and back throughout the entire show by her self and others, so I don’t really see that as problematic.
7/9 was brought on to replace Kes (one of the worst characters I ever had to watch on TV) and yeah, her looks definitely played a reason when Jery Ryan was cast for that role, but her character arc was one of the most satisfying in all of Star Trek in my opinion. And she did not wear a uniform, because she was not a regular part of the crew, just like Neelix. The suit was designed by the doctor who was just a lecherous old man.
But meanwhile, I was watching Sisko over on DS9 and he was a man who absolutely had a strong moral center but was being forced to do all kinds of things that he didn’t necessarily agree with and didn’t want to do
“I can live with it” was one of the best, most honest, most heartbreaking lines in all of ST
“If I had to do it all over again, I would.”
How come Cisco, a man well within reach of federation support and with a fully stocked station gets the benefit of the doubt when he goes genociding an entire planet with what is essentially a chemical weapon, but Janeway is evil, because she does similar things while cut off from federation, surrounded b enemies with a ship and ressouces always at the edge of running out?
For the record, I actually disagreed with him for the destruction of that planet, and I actually thought that the Maquis were morally much more correct than the Federation, when it comes to ethics. A lot of people hated Eddington, but I actually sympathized with the Maquis and thought that Eddington believed in his actions.
When I talked about Sisko, I didn’t agree with his ethics in every action, but I saw him as more grounded in his principles. It wasn’t that he always came to conclusions that I agreed with or that his decisions were always what I would have supported, but instead that I thought that the character was very well-done and consistent with his struggle with ethical positions.
The thing I didn’t like about Janeway was that she seemed all over the place with her ethics. Sometimes she seemed very ethical. Sometimes she seemed very unethical. But it seemed like her ethics and actions were driven more by the authors having the perception of “What would tantalize the viewers in this particular story?” instead of “What might this particular character with their particular backstory do in this type of situation?” I didn’t feel that she had the appropriate level of consistency as a character.
And also, I felt that was true about a lot of the other characters and stories in Voyager. It didn’t feel so much like character development, but like in a lot of cases the writers would come up with a direction they wanted the show to go and then would insert a random character into whatever role they needed someone to fit into in order to drive the story forward. It WAS storyline development, and it DID drive the story forward, but while (and please don’t get me wrong) there was some appropriate character development for certain specific characters, it felt like a lot of the actions of crew members was misplaced.
And as for Seven and the uniform thing, I mean, half of the crew was Maquis. It seems to me that if it was appropriate for them to be wearing Starfleet uniforms then it’s equally appropriate for her to be wearing a Starfleet uniform. To me, this is another example of the inconsistencies within Voyager, things like them having a lot more resources than they were purported to have, and things like that took me out of the story when I would watch.
I really WANTED to like Voyager. I honestly did. There were a lot of pieces there for development, but I found myself distracted again and again by the thoughts that “It doesn’t seem like this particular character would do that,” or “It seems a lot more like this other character would be the one to do that,” or “Why did they do this thing that was inconsistent with their behaviors in the other episodes?” or “Why did it seem like the writers did this one particular thing to wow the viewers when it didn’t really seem to drive the story forward?”
Again, I’m sorry.
Oh im with you. One of the great things about DS9 was showing believable characters in difficult situations that forced them to make no-win choices, especially Sisko and Kira. And personally, as an anarchist, I was much more inclined to like the Maquis than I think many of the writers were.
Again, im not far enough into Voyager just yet to have a big-picture opinion just yet, but i definitely agree that they should’ve stressed the resource hunger and strain more. Its a common complaint from what ive seen.