cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/16451158
People deserve to vote for someone they actually support, not the least terrible option.
Stop blaming the voters.
Well said.
Or as I take it a little further (s/someone/what/ hinting at more direct democracy too):
Imagine getting to vote for what you want, not against who you don’t want.
But I really like how you put it too.
Sure, people deserve better options. But the fucking point is that WHEN those options do NOT exist, voting for the WORSE option is fucking STUPID and supports fascism. When anyone convinces someone who wouldn’t vote for the less bad option not to vote, FASCISM WINS.
When people keep voting for the LESS BAD option when those better options do NOT exist, better options WON’T appear as voting LESS BAD removes the INCENTIVE for it. Therefore voting for the LESS BAD option ensures the options will always remain FASCISM and something slightly LESS BAD - no better options. If one wants better options, keep voting LESS BAD is fucking STUPID.
Your logic only applies to local/state elections. It does not apply to presidential elections.
If you vote 3rd party in a presidential election, you’re a fool acknowleging you’re incapable of doing basic math and fine with the worst case scenario.
Explain how does it not work? People not voting for the shitty D candidate, causing them to lose to R doesn’t create an incentive for D to change course? Do I need to presrnt to you the last two years of intense D soul searching after Kamala lost?
fine with the worst case scenario.
Obvioisly that’s part of the calculus. Most who question the lesser evil approach understand this. However you might not understand that no matter how hard you call people fools, that doesn’t change the picture for people who’ve given up on voting for Turd Sandwich. Might even be achieving the opposite. A lot of people are done with the Turd Sandwich status quo and are either staying home or voting Giant Douche. Sounds like you have to give them something better to vote for if you don’t want more Giant Douche.
People not voting for the shitty D candidate, causing them to lose to R
Congrats, you just elected fascists.
I guess you’ll have to do something about it then.
I am. I’m trying to teach people how not to support fascists.
When the general election hits, you will have two options (yea three or more). You can vote for the Republican, fascist candidate. Or you can vote for the Democratic candidate.
Anything other than - at that point - voting for the Dem is throwing your support behind fascists.
That is simple fact.
And that includes third parties.
Anything you want to try and do to change the system - because it fucking needs it - should be done before/outside of that process.
It’s really not fucking complicated.
I guess people would have to elect at least one more fascist gov’t then. Cause people don’t give a shit what the process is and won’t vote for turd sandwich in sufficient numbers no matter how much you insist they do. And I’m not doing that. I’m merely trying to present the view of the person who doesn’t buy this shit, didn’t vote Kamala and won’t vote Newsom no matter how hard you scold them.
You’re not wrong, but the time to fix that is at the primary and not the general.
And yes, I’m aware the DNC has their thumb on the scale when it comes to the Democratic primary. So that means vote in your local elections too, so that there are actually progressive candidates to choose from instead of corporate-owned do-nothings.
No, the point is to agitate you against an establishment that wants to prevent you from having a better choice.
Liberals who are passionately defending lesser evil electoralism before primaries have even started are either idiots in denial or moderates who don’t want to talk about why their party is nearly as unpopular as Trump.
One of Propagandas goals is to get you to give up. Uncovering truths and doing research is hard according to Josh Johnson, if it was easy more of us would do it instead of watching memes. Propaganda is designed to flood you with so much crap that you question everything and then give up looking for the truth because its hard. Ai has not helped this.
question everything and then give up looking
?
Why the second part?
Why not just remain questioning everything?
Propaganda is designed to flood you with so much crap that…
… that you [in the current form of propaganda] start to believe the truth is unknowable, because of all the lies in all directions at once. This primes you to give up [on truth and democracy], and seek a totalitarian/fascist strongman to save you.
Carry on questioning everything. Cannot have a fully informed public without educated minds. The mark of an educated mind is the ability to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting nor rejecting it.
Deploying non-belief may decouple you from susceptibility to such psyop propaganda.
We can still mend this.
(Also +1 Josh Johnson, probably my fave comedian these days.).
Probably just poor phrasing on my part.
The video I posted goes into more about how propaganda in the form of flooding you with to much info works and the problems that AI is adding to it.
It wasn’t poor phrasing, friend. It’s exactly correct.
People absolutely give up. They give up because the truth is depressing and the lies are depressing and it’s exhausting trying to police our politicians’ corruptions and the media is complicit and it all seems hopeless.
It’s easier to just put your head in the sand until trouble knocks on your door. And the sad truth is that people will continue to eat shit until there’s nothing left to eat at all. Only then, when they are hungry and cold and scared, will they finally stand up and be angry.
I really don’t think that this is limited to American politics.
Even if we DO vote, we still get Republicans. They just wear a different color and use a different letter.
BOFE SIDEZ YOU SAY?!!?!?!?!
Goddamn. You may as well be a Russian operative.
If you can’t see the differences, put on some fucking glasses. It’s not exactly subtle.
The differences are
- Wars vs wars
- Gaza genocide vs Gaza genocide
- Robber baron capitalism versus robber baron capitalism
- Tax cuts for the rich versus tax cuts for the rich
- Deregulation of media versus deregulation of media
- Transphobia versus transphobia (seriously, do you know anything about Newsom other than funny memes?)
- Fundamentalism versus fundamentalism
- Inflation versus inflation
- Increased police funding versus increased police funding
- Shuttling military surplus equipment to police versus, yeah
- Mass incarceration versus mass incarceration
- Privatization versus privatization
- Out of control healthcare costs versus out of control healthcare costs
- No universal healthcare versus no universal healthcare
Oh, sorry, there is one; one of them hates rainbows and the other pretends to like them. My bad
Anyone who didn’t vote has endorsed everything that the government is doing right now, regardless of the election outcome. If the Dems had won, they would have endorsed the Dems’ actions. Since the Reps won, they’ve endorsed the Reps’ actions.
“If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice”
~Geddy “the GOAT” Lee, Freewill
The people who didn’t vote because of the genocide agree with you that it is an endorsement, which is why they didn’t vote. Voting is not an endorsement, it’s a strategic choice and calling it otherwise overplays it’s significance and divides us.
By the logic of OP, not voting also endorsed the genocide.
And all the Palestinian that didn’t vote endorsed Hamas and their own genocide. This “logic” is about being right but not about what is good. It’s a great example a moral high horse the Democrats are happy to ride in on because it costs them nothing, unlike opposing a genocide. This creates moral ambiguity which the right exploits to win elections.
Reality is morally ambiguous, and pretending it’s black and white allows the right to win elections they would otherwise lose.
I’ll vote, but never for a major party. Didn’t do it at any point in the last decade that I’ve been eligible to vote and people were fine with that when Dems still won and even laughed at leftists who thought winning Dems should cater to them.
I’ll vote, but never for a major party.
All good unless you’re talking about a presidential election. If you don’t vote for one of the only two candidates that can win in a presidential election, then you’re a fool acknowledging that you’re fine with the worst case scenario.
Call me when Missouri comes anywhere close to flipping to blue and I might give a shit.
Oh you don’t like either candidate? What a special person you are! I can’t believe that a nation of 340 million people winnowed down their possible leaders to two people without producing one that you absolutely love!
you know, in that primary we had
Nah, in the long run: a weak and unstable US is better for the rest of the world. Also: with the orange man, you know what you have and you don’t want to vote for more genocide, right?