Genuinely where? I always find myself reading through these threads because it’s something I feel very conflicted about and still haven’t really found a satisfying answer to. And every time I see a bunch of comments of people calling out the “both sides same” people. But I don’t know that I’ve ever seen someone actually say this. Maybe it’s the way the comments are sorted, maybe they get deleted, maybe I’ve just somehow gotten lucky.

But in this thread alone, I read through a little over 100 comments to get to this one. So far, 0 have said that both sides are the same. There have been 6 comments either complaining about people saying both sides are the same. Or accusing people of saying that. But I haven’t seen anyone actually saying that.

I’ve seen criticisms of Democrats. That’s a valid thing to do, and doesn’t mean that both sides are the same, just that our side has issues too. That should be addressed, and acting like they’re not issues isn’t going to make them go away.

I’ve seen people talk about similarities between both sides. And calling out the Democrats slowly leaning further and further rightward doing things like throwing immigrants and trans people under the bus in the efforts to chase the moderate conservative vote. That’s not saying both sides are the same.

I’ve seen people talking about how both sides are captured by corporate interests. And don’t really listen to the people they represent but rather their donors, to keep that money flowing. This is something both parties share in common, but again it’s not saying that they’re the same though.

I’m not saying that you’re wrong. I’m just trying to understand, with how often I see people complaining about people saying it all the time, how I haven’t really seen anybody say it.

It’s almost like a politician’s job is to not only uphold the will of the electorate, but also act as opposition, and push back on bullshit that the other side is spewing. Rather than constantly conceding to their framing in the hopes of seducing a handful of “moderates”. That very tactic is a contributing reason that shit like this gets 2/3rds of the electorate to agree to it because now their party is also saying it’s a problem.

Seriously how much of that do you think is genuinely deeply held well thought out beliefs of the masses vs just people uncritically giving in to the framing that they hear in the media, and on the news, and see spoken about by politicians.

And why is it that when it comes to things like healthcare, cracking down on price gouging, fixing the housing market, blocking the building of data centers, taking down/preventing flock cameras, stopping the sending of weapons to Israel, and other things that are broadly popular with the electorate, they have no issue ignoring those wishes. But for some reason, this issue is one that is very important for them to listen to the will of the people. They couldn’t possibly ignore it like everything else.

I get all of that. I’m just saying if we are attempting to steel man Patel’s argument. How would the concept of beastiality come up? If not through a conviction, or some sort of registry, do they specifically ask family/coworkers/acquaintances of the person applying whether they have reason to believe that person has had experiences with that in the past? Instead of just broadly asking for any information they should be concerned or informed about? I know personally, if I was privy to the information that someone went through that sort of thing, it certainly wouldn’t be top of the mind of things I should be sharing as part of a background check. I know not every body thinks the same way, but sharing that someone was the victim of a crime isn’t something that I would think is relevant unless specifically questioned about.

Do they expect to find proof of this occurring on social media? I guess one way would be news stories if someone comes forward to talk about their experience of being trafficked/forced into that sort of thing. It just seems like if this is something that occurred it would be a pretty private issue and not something that they would go around openly talking about to every one.

But like another commenter mentioned it would be much simpler to just add “willingly” to that guideline, in order to have the cut out they are looking for. And as fucked up as it is, wouldn’t someone being a victim of trafficking also be disqualifying? It would leave them open to blackmail/intimidation due to their trauma no?

The whole situation is just so strange to me, and the excuses given just really don’t add up. In another comment further down the chain I bring up the fact that it seems weird to have this unequal enforcement where for some reason, beastiality specifically is something that they are willing to be lenient on and hear people out but with the other guidelines not so much. And yes I know there are other guidelines that they also loosened, but it seems like they are just blindly throwing darts at a board with their guidelines to choose what to lighten up on instead of easing guidelines across the board. Or more concerningly, they have an oddly specific list of things that they think are acceptable.

Disclaimer: I’m not trying to argue with you, I’m just trying to wrap my head around this.

I get that it shifts it from being an immediate disqualifier. But then we’re right back to the issue at the start. A “yes” to that question means there has been a conviction. And while yes, the system gets things wrong all the time, especially given the example you cite, why are they specifically making this carve out for beastiality? Like you said, people were wrongfully convicted of terrorism for attending protests. There are plenty of felony convictions that can be incorrect or unjustified or biased. And I’m assuming those felony convictions would also be an immediate disqualifier for employment at the FBI. So it’s really weird for them to act like beastiality is a unique charge where these sorts of things can happen . Which makes the whole excuse bullshit.

There’s a cognitive dissonance here that I just can’t explain away as anything other than just blatant excuses with no real basis. If the argument is that sometimes convictions can be wrong and there can be extenuating circumstances, then that should be applied wholesale. And there shouldn’t be any immediate disqualifiers without having a discussion with the candidate. If they’re willing to accept convictions for other crimes as gospel because the judgement came from the system, then the same should apply to beastiality.

The fact that this specific carve out is being made (I know that there are other guidelines being relaxed as well, but it’s not across the board, they are choosing a handful of specific things) really does just make it seem like no matter what justifications Patel provides he really just does support/like/excuse beastiality.

Ok hang on. I definitely understand that the world isn’t fair.

I’m not a lawyer. And I’m not really sure how to even go about looking this up, nor do I particularly want it in my search history. But are you saying that the current US law as it stands allows being convicted of beastiality simply by being a victim of force?

Because it’s not like they hook you up to a magic lie detector and ask if you’ve ever participated in beastiality. They are asking if you have been convicted of said crime. Which is something they can look up and verify. And I would assume said conviction would require a court case. With a decision by a judge or jury. And so during the case, if you make the argument that you were trafficked/forced into it you still face charges?

And if that isn’t how the law works, then we would be talking about cases where somebody was forced into that situation, but was unable to prove that they were forced in court, and were wrongfully convicted. Then we are talking about an exception to an exception. And that just seems insane. Especially with the fact that the guidelines change is so broad and sweeping, rather than as granularly specific as the case trying to be argued here.

Again, I’m not a lawyer, and certainly not well versed in the laws regarding beastiality. Maybe there’s something I’m just missing. But I don’t understand how you could be added to a registry, or have something put on your record without some sort of conviction. And I don’t understand how you can be convicted of something if you were a victim yourself, and being forced to do something, especially as a minor.

I get that’s what he’s trying to say. But that still doesn’t make sense to me. Because if someone was trafficked and forced to engage in those acts against their will, wouldn’t that situation come up in whatever trial put that on their record? And if someone was in that circumstance, do they still get charged with beastiality despite the fact that it was completely non consensual on their part? That seems wrong to me. Especially if, as he also tried to imply, it happened when they were a minor. If that is the case, I think he should be pushing for the laws around that to get changed, rather than the FBI hiring guidelines.

But to me this whole thing reeks of a hastily thought up shitty excuse. Because even if it is actually the case, that minors who are trafficked and forced into beastiality against their will still face charges for it, how frequent is it that people in that very specific scenario are also actively applying to the FBI? And if it is one specific person they were trying to make exceptions for, why not make an exception specifically for that person instead of opening up the guidelines as a whole. It’s just so stupid and incompetent. But what else can you expect from Kash Patel.

Well all of the openers and his backing band have all dropped out of the tour.

He’s a very large artist, it’s not like he doesn’t have any sway. If he really dug his heels in, do you think the venues would follow through on cancelling? And if they did, do you think people would be more upset with him for standing up for a good cause, or with the venues for cancelling his shows just because they disagree with something someone he is touring with said, that is broadly popular and blatantly not antisemitic?

The Democrats? Surely this is sarcasm. Or bait. Far too many liberal Dems don’t want Nazis dead. They want to reach across the aisle and work hand in hand with them. Or at best want to get a slightly more palatable Nazi in power. Now leftists, that’s another conversation entirely.

Completely agree. Plus, who exactly is going to be hurting them? It would be infighting and paranoia. It would be ICE on ICE violence. Which wouldn’t be happening in the first place if ICE wasn’t so violent and trigger-happy.