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The problems with this book are not just “a product of it’s time”. There were authors at the time who could write women characters, Heinlen just wasn’t one of them.
This was my favorite book when I was in my mid 20s. I tried to read it a couple of years ago and just couldn’t.
I’ve always had problems with Heinlein. Early on, my problems were more that his dialogue just seemed… too pat. He couldn’t separate his characters in his mind, so they always had the perfect comebacks to what each other were saying.
And as I got older, I have more and more problem with his women. But then again, I adore Isaac Asimov, and he can’t write women well, either. But better than Heinlein.
I would say that Asimov cannot write human characters. All his characters are almost robotic. I still love his writing, and he plays with logical reasoning extremely well, but I wouldn’t go to him for well-rounded characters
I liked the engineer types in I, Robot. I thought they were dated (as they were dated when I read them in the 80s and 90s), but decently reasonable. heh.
But honestly, I have a hard time arguing too stringently against your asssertion. lol. Especially women, but yes, he was more comfortable with science than people.
Then again, the times I’ve tried writing… I’m not good at writing people and I figured that out. But for me, I think it’s the ADHD. I don’t know what the hell normal people do. lol
I honestly believe Asimov was far in the autism spectrum because of how he describes people as purely rational beings.
Talking about I, Robot and talking as a woman in STEM, he actually was quite good in noticing how the environment was not woman-friendly and deduce from there. The main woman in the story is a very recognizable character. (I forgot her name, she is stern and strict, good at her job but has no personal life outside of it. You feel she has too battle against the environment at every turn, and even while being really good at her job her department is a one-person group)
You know, over the past day or so in this topic… I’m starting to wonder and/or maybe realize that’s probably a thing. I have severe ADHD, and when I’ve self-evaluated for autism, score incredibly high on the social side (not so much on the texture/hobby sides). I’ve always had some troubles with understanding some of my fellow humans (while at other times feeling like I had special insights in some situations)… maybe that’s one reason I liked Asimov more than some. lol
Also: Susan Calvin, one of my favorite characters. :)
I’ve recently come to terms with the fact that I am somewhat on the spectrum as well, and suddenly quite some things make sense. In particular the type of writing that I like and how I express myself… I mean, I started reading again in my late teens to figure out how people tick, so, yeah
It’s kinda fun like you hear about someone saying “Wait, eating banana is NOT supposed to make your mouth tingle?” as they find out they’re… allergic to bananas. lol
Yeah, I’m good in social situations, because i built a very very extensive library of all options! What do you mean, people just walk into a new situation and just… know how to behave?! Give me a couple of references and culturally relevant explanations and I’ll manage fine. Drop me in and I’m lost
The problems with this book are not just “a product of it’s time”. There were authors at the time who could write women characters, Heinlen just wasn’t one of them.
This was my favorite book when I was in my mid 20s. I tried to read it a couple of years ago and just couldn’t.
I’ve always had problems with Heinlein. Early on, my problems were more that his dialogue just seemed… too pat. He couldn’t separate his characters in his mind, so they always had the perfect comebacks to what each other were saying.
And as I got older, I have more and more problem with his women. But then again, I adore Isaac Asimov, and he can’t write women well, either. But better than Heinlein.
I would say that Asimov cannot write human characters. All his characters are almost robotic. I still love his writing, and he plays with logical reasoning extremely well, but I wouldn’t go to him for well-rounded characters
I liked the engineer types in I, Robot. I thought they were dated (as they were dated when I read them in the 80s and 90s), but decently reasonable. heh.
But honestly, I have a hard time arguing too stringently against your asssertion. lol. Especially women, but yes, he was more comfortable with science than people.
Then again, the times I’ve tried writing… I’m not good at writing people and I figured that out. But for me, I think it’s the ADHD. I don’t know what the hell normal people do. lol
I honestly believe Asimov was far in the autism spectrum because of how he describes people as purely rational beings.
Talking about I, Robot and talking as a woman in STEM, he actually was quite good in noticing how the environment was not woman-friendly and deduce from there. The main woman in the story is a very recognizable character. (I forgot her name, she is stern and strict, good at her job but has no personal life outside of it. You feel she has too battle against the environment at every turn, and even while being really good at her job her department is a one-person group)
You know, over the past day or so in this topic… I’m starting to wonder and/or maybe realize that’s probably a thing. I have severe ADHD, and when I’ve self-evaluated for autism, score incredibly high on the social side (not so much on the texture/hobby sides). I’ve always had some troubles with understanding some of my fellow humans (while at other times feeling like I had special insights in some situations)… maybe that’s one reason I liked Asimov more than some. lol
Also: Susan Calvin, one of my favorite characters. :)
I’ve recently come to terms with the fact that I am somewhat on the spectrum as well, and suddenly quite some things make sense. In particular the type of writing that I like and how I express myself… I mean, I started reading again in my late teens to figure out how people tick, so, yeah
It’s kinda fun like you hear about someone saying “Wait, eating banana is NOT supposed to make your mouth tingle?” as they find out they’re… allergic to bananas. lol
Yeah, I’m good in social situations, because i built a very very extensive library of all options! What do you mean, people just walk into a new situation and just… know how to behave?! Give me a couple of references and culturally relevant explanations and I’ll manage fine. Drop me in and I’m lost